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Today I actually used the bitcoin for the first (and hopefully last) time. I'm gonna share my thoughts and experiences.

So very soon I'm gonna buy new pc and while doing backups of my current data I remembered that I have some old wallet with some btc on it. I went to check it out and indeed it had incredible amount of 0.00317220 btc which is what? Something like 30 bucks nowadays (should've cashed out during ATH, I'm a fool, lol).
I got it in 2014, back then fees were nonexistant and the space was full of idiot believers and cultists trying to recruit new members to the cult with overwhelming positivity, love bombing, hype, typical anti state propaganda, blatant shilling and donations. That's right baby. In case you're new or don't remember, back then people were donating small amounts of bitcoin left and right just to get more people to try and get hooked. They were doing it for fun and they were doing it to get more fools into this game. I was one of them newcomers. 2014 OG HODLer.
This was play money back then, a few bucks from pointless reddit tips. I took it to my wallet to check out how this "innovation" works out of curiosity. Since then I would look up bitcoin news once in roughly 6 months. Sometimes they were good like some hipster cafees would adopt bitcoin and a few stoners would use them, sometimes they were bad and since we saw all kind of bad here I don't even need to give examples. I never speculated on it or bought more because I was interested purely in its function as a currency of internet and its implications, not speculative value nor some dubious gains that can only be truly justified in hindsight and if you ignore the bagholders. Of course since then many things changed including my outlook on this whole circus, if you're interested my 'testimony' is here:
https://www.reddit.com/Buttcoin/comments/85a6zn/be_honest_with_me/dvw45kp/?context=3
Since I found out I have roughly 30 USD in funbux and since as a PC gamer I really despise what idiot crypto space did to gpu market with their pointless irrational exuberance and idiotic waste of untold amounts of energy I decided to actually spend it. Because it fucked me already and made me spend much more on a graphic card that I should might as well get something back, right? Also the thought that my endless crypto abstinence would passively enrich those idiot, libertarian neckbeards is hurting my greedy human soul so fuck your 'donations to community' Satoshi. I'm ending my crypto celibacy. I'm going stop HODLing gasp and spend (and not replace).
First roadblock. Steam no longer accepts bitcoin. Green man gaming supposedly accepted it in the past, not anymore though. NICE ADOPTION CURVE BRO. Thanks to the december-january bonanza the adoption is going backwards and the progress that was achieved through years of constant shilling and pestering bussinesses to accept bitcoin has been lost due to speculative mania, volatility and fees. This is good for bitcoin of course but not good for me, need a way out. I'm not gonna register on some shady exchange and give them all my data, my bank account, picture of my id and my dick and whatever else these fucking scammers want. Fuck that, we're decentralized and trustless baby, I'm gonna use my money without using "trusted" 3rd fucking party to get my money back in a practical way or this thing is truly useless.
I look and find a website that offers games for bitcoin. The website is absolutely minimalistic, obviously no information about the company, some anonymous bastards that could be using stolen credit cards for all I know. Well, maybe not that bad, they've been up for years, I also found mentions of other websites that went dysfunctional over the years but not this one. Obviously I can't verify how they get their keys. Couldn't find any relevant information on google about them that isn't 3 years old. Once again nice adoption bro. I found one recent thread on reddit and was hopeful I will learn something useful in dedicated bitcoin reddit no less but...
https://www.reddit.com/Bitcoin/comments/82ubjm/anyone_vouch_for_this_website/
Yeah, why would you want to spend your internet funbux on something? Buy the motherfucking dip bro. Currency of the future can wait, store of value here we come. Well what's the point of storing your value if you can't reliably unstore it at some point? Fuck that ideology, lol.
Finally decided to risk it for the biscuit. My old wallet can't even connect to the network because it's too fucking old. Maybe that's good nobody will scam me due to some electrum vulnerability or something that was discovered some time ago. I'm not sure, I heard about it some time ago. Anyway I download new electrum and it automatically finds my wallet file, everything is recovered just fine, good.
Now....how the fuck do I use that thing? That's right. 4 years of ironhanded HODLing took a toll on me, I forgot how to use the damn thing. Fortunately the UI is pretty self explanatory (for quite tech savvy user who already used it in the past mind you) after a while I figure things out, just had to change the valuation from mbtc to BTC. The way it displayed my balance I almost thought I have 3 bitcoins for a second, I chuckled. My balance is 0.00317220 BTC. game price is 0.0028 BTC ($23.75 USD). Needless to say it looks horrible and impractical and a had to check a few times because I have my btc in several addresses. Just imagine buying groceries with it. I discover there are more informational tabs in electrum, why the fuck they're hidden by default is beyond me, they seem pretty useful. Anyway if I were to guess the probability of my normie acquaintances finding this easy and useful it would be very low.
Okay I select my game, decide to check out, now it's time to pay. The bitpay thingy is actually okay, when I copied the transaction url to the wallet it automatically filled everything out. Progress. Now...what the fuck is my password? Nice, I have my funbux that I hodled for a long time and can't spend it. And I can't generate new seed and make new wallet with my seed to bypass the password because I need password to create my seed. Catch 22. Obviously no customer support or email recovery for this one, lol. Thank god banks are not that autistic. Fortunately I find the password and seed as well in some old doc related to bitcoins in plain text (lol). Securitus maximus. Back then I was a complete noob, I can only imagine the hilarious opsec or lack thereof of fresh noobs in crypto. Use birdbath plebs.
I finally have my password, return to the website and see that the bitpay transaction timer has gone from 15 minutes to 6 minutes. I get slightly nervous. "What if I send my money but the confirmation comes later? Will it work?". I do quick google and apparently it may cause problems and I may have to contact bitpay and do some stuff if it won't confirm within timer. Jesus what a chore. Instead I wait till the timer runs out. Make another attempt, use the high fee to be absolutely damn sure that my transaction will be confirmed in this block (7 sats calculated by wallet, paid 4312 sats so 1.3 dollar or something? Sure, not as crazy as January but still meh, is this the 4 year progress? Last time I used it was much less I think. Or maybe it's so high because the price is high? Whatever).
I wait a bit and yes, success, my order is confirmed. Now I just have to believe I won't get scammed or I won't get wrong game or I won't get some shitty russian region locked key or whatever:
Your game(s) will be sent as soon as the order has been manually processed, which should take 8 to 9 hours.
Nice. Just wait 9 hours to be sure I'm not gonna get hosed by some internet no name company. Also manually processed? Is this 20th century or what? I bet their customer support is nonexistant or they have a designated emplyee who receives messages through contact form and laughs at the fools while copy pasting some bullshit. Currency of the future baby. Trustlessness fucking sucks for a customer like me. IT FUCKING SUCKS. It was a nice experiment though. I predict another 10 years of FUCKING SUCKING in regards to adoption too.
Now a comparison how it worked when I bought steam games in the past with paypal.
I go to steam (or other store, not much difference), choose pay with paypal. I pay with paypal. I get my motherfucking game. And that one time when I bought in other store when something actually gone wrong I resolved it with support quite quickly. Case closed.
So to sum it up. I got a few bucks in tips from crypto cultists in 2014. HODLed with adamantium hands since then. Never spent, never cashed out, never surrendered to the temptation until now. Turned 2 bucks into something like ~27 atm. Got money for free. Then this money's buying power risen without any work on my part and without any company behind this token producing positive value, products, services etc. It just rose because people paid more for it. I Bought something with the money I never had and never touched worth more than I originally got for free. If that isn't the literal definition of infinite value I don't know what is. I'm sure it's 100% sustainable too. It's not like it took enough energy to power my household for 6 months (if digiconomist stats are to be believed) or maybe even more to validate the transaction of me buying one fucking game. This is the future, right?
Now every time some salty butter will say I'm a stupid no coiner I can brag to them that they maybe had 100% gains or 1000% gains when they bought in early but my gains are literally infinite because I never had to even buy. Got 2 bucks for 0 effort, had it transmuted into 27 bucks like a motherfucking alchemist with a philosopher's stone (more during ATH, sucks to cash out late) with literally no effort. Best non-investment ever.
Now all I need is for bitcoin to proportionally bubble once again so that I can use the change from this transaction to buy another game in another 4 years. Get to work my minions. Shill.
I will update this thread later with information regarding whether I actually got what I paid for or not.
Edit: Ok. I finally received the steam gift from random, obscure, anonymous, internet game store. Yay?! Would I like to repeat this type of transaction again, next time with my own money? Hell no. But it served as a cool experiment and reminder why customer service, banks and trusted parties are important. The fact that my money will undoubtedly reach some random anonymous people without trusted 3rd party wasn't giving me a libertarian boner (hold on, I used payment processor anyway, I think?) and being my own bank did not gave me comfort nor any satisfaction at all. The fact that my money is at someone else's mercy and if they want to they can just take it and never refund it was adding to the discomfort. It was mostly frustration and a chore. Trustlessness brings fear, unceartainty and doubt....in other words trustlessness is FUD and fiat is king, deal with it.
submitted by Cthulhooo to Buttcoin [link] [comments]

Log of AMA @ ark.io/slack with bitbay.market - @dzimbeck (David Zimbeck), @Munti (Bjørn Alsos)

dr10 Let us all welcome team from :bitbay: bitbay.market :bitbay: - @dzimbeck (David zimbeck ) and @Munti (Bjørn Alsos). You can all start asking them questions. I'd ask team from bitbay.market to use @ username to the one they are responding to and I'd like to ask all the community to give them some time to catch up if too many questions in backlog, before asking more so questions don't get lost. Thank you!
dzimbeck Hi
dr10 Hello
Munti Hi
dzimbeck Wow you guys have quite the slack. 7k people
dzimbeck very professional site too, always noticed that
dr10 haha, yeah grew a bit over time
dzimbeck Also a decent domain.
arigard @dzimbeck Man, I remember you from back in the day in Blackcoin
dzimbeck Haha yes that is where I started
dr10 okay guys, start with your questions :wink:
Munti Is there anyone helping us keep track of any questions we might miss because we are busy answering?
dzimbeck But I'm not the dev of Blackcoin
dzimbeck I only wrote Halo into it because I needed an alt
dr10 I have an eye on the chat and people notice when you didnt answer it, dont worry :smile:
dzimbeck and didn't want to start a pump thing
tranzer What is BitBay in few words. Are you anonymous marketplace? (edited)
dzimbeck Unbreakable contracts, Anonymous serverless markets and rolling peg
dzimbeck all of those features are extremely important for decentralization and computer science in general
dzimbeck "Unbreakable contracts" is the non-technical term for "Double deposit escrow"
dzimbeck It works by both parties placing a deposit in a joint account
dzimbeck and if they cheat each other they both lose their funds when the time limit expires
dzimbeck making the contract somewhat unbreakable
dzimbeck regardless of what is agreed to
btcmacroecon what if one cheats the other?
dzimbeck since it's a joint account
btcmacroecon hunt them down?
dzimbeck you need that person to sign off
dzimbeck so they lose money
dzimbeck they can't cheat you
dzimbeck example:
dzimbeck you want to buy a guitar
dzimbeck which costs 100 dollars
dzimbeck so you put up a deposit of 100 and also 100 into the joint account
dzimbeck the seller also puts up 100 to guarantee shipping and their own honesty
dzimbeck when the seller sends the guitar if you steal it
dzimbeck then seller won't sign off on the contract
dzimbeck causing both parties to lose money
dzimbeck (you just paid 200 for a 100 dollar it)
dzimbeck So this forces users to work together
dzimbeck better than E-bay with arbiters
dzimbeck in fact.. I am shocked this isn't the industry standard
tranzer Are there any limits on how much can someone sell or buy item for?
dzimbeck I've been doing this for 4 years since BitHalo started
Munti When you use double deposit escrow, your protection is based upon the fact that no one can gain anything by breaking the deal. That pretty much eliminates scammers as there is no incentive for them.
btcmacroecon what if the seller "says" the other stole the guitar, when in reality it was received, it's jus seller wont sign off on it to be a dick
dzimbeck No limits
dzimbeck and deposits are negotiable (edited)
donze Nice idea
ulyssessyoungo interesting
dzimbeck @btcmacroecon Because the seller will lose money if he does
Munti I actually just bought a property in our marketplace. Got the paperwork in the mail today
donze Your market is active?
dzimbeck Being a dick doesn't profit a dime
donze Or work in progress
dzimbeck It actually costs money to be a dick
dzimbeck which is what we WANT
arigard @dzimbeck is that similar to the two way mad escrow Particl are working on?
ulyssessyoungo I like the sound of that
dzimbeck we want jerks to be broke
dzimbeck we want politicians to be the ones begging for food on the street
ulyssessyoungo do you have any system beyond that
Munti Our marketplace has been operational since early 2015
ulyssessyoungo to see if people honor the contracts?
ulyssessyoungo like user history or something
dzimbeck Oh there is tons of systems in BitBay
little_round Particl took it from bitbay
dzimbeck we actually have a wall of features
ulyssessyoungo I mean like
ulyssessyoungo say a guy has a history of blowing up contracts
dzimbeck http://bitbay.market/wall
ulyssessyoungo are those people easily identified as bad business?
tranzer Do you have numbers of how many people "were dicks" and how much was already agreed upon in your marketplace (like yearly turnaround)?
dzimbeck Yes
dzimbeck You can see how many contracts their profile has blown up
dzimbeck so you can mathematically calculate what their deposit should be!
dzimbeck It's like the perfect escrow for p2p transactions
ulyssessyoungo that's nice
Munti Actually particl (then shadowcoin) tried to hire David to make the marketplace for them many years ago. When he declined, they tried to revers enginer his code. They failed :slightly_smiling_face:
ulyssessyoungo So like a reputation system?
ulyssessyoungo I always check vendor reputations on alibaba, amazon etc.
arigard @Munti really? Interesting..
dzimbeck And it's been working for 3+ years it was actually the worlds first smart contracts
dzimbeck Yep
btcmacroecon is there a scenario when a seller would lose money if it harmed the buyer, even if seller loses money, adversely affecting the buyer, even if guitar received, to cause buyer to lose money? Or woul buyer come out ahead cause of guitar, or would that mean net loss for buyer in this scenario, despite "seller wouldn't do it cause he loses money assumption"
dzimbeck we have a reputation system
dzimbeck Yes you are right
dzimbeck but consider this @btcmacroecon
shtand Does the seller always match 100% of the value of what they're selling?
dzimbeck The seller does cause buyer to lose
dzimbeck but now they have proof they are blowing up contracts
dzimbeck who would want to work with that seller later?
dzimbeck Also that seller would be asked in future deals for a LARGER deposit
btcmacroecon ok and ebay has good marketplace for reputation.
dzimbeck meaning being a jerk is progressive;y cost inhibitive
dzimbeck And this reputation system there is no way to lie about it
Munti @dzimbeck I just noticed we both forget to use @ to make it clear who we are answering
dzimbeck because there is cryptographic proof you blew up the funds
btcmacroecon ok good to wait for established track record
dzimbeck I will use the @ more thanks
dzimbeck @shtand Not always
ulyssessyoungo eBay is good with the reputation system but not so much the arbitration
ulyssessyoungo so that makes me interested in alternatives
dzimbeck matching 1:1 is a great way to deal with strangers you don't trust
dzimbeck But a great seller might only put up 10%
ulyssessyoungo i've been screwed selling some high ticket items on ebay before, not terribly so but enough to make me wonder what the point of a middleman is if they just side with the buyer in most cases
dzimbeck exactly!!
donze safex will be full anonymous and will give dividends to those who own it, what are the advantages of bitbay other than being ahead in the roadmap?
dzimbeck But guys this isn't just buying and selling
dzimbeck who here has outsourced?
btcmacroecon What about where damage or not represented product as advertised? same thing? comes down to reputation scores?
dzimbeck @donze that would be the rolling peg we will get to that
arigard Does Bitbay have any anon functionality?
dzimbeck @btcmacroecon Realize a seller loses funds for damaged items if blown up. He will be much more motivated to work with buyer than he would be in e-bay
dzimbeck BitBays markets are anon
Munti @ donze If safex is able to pay dividends, they will need to take that money from somewhere. Fees? We have no fees (edited)
dzimbeck because they use Bitmessage
dzimbeck and we don't bloat the blockchain
dzimbeck because Bitmessage is p2p
dzimbeck and no chain is used
shtand what's determining who a 'great seller' is and what % they need to match then?
dzimbeck thus no servers
kimchi ...where does bitbay profit come from?
tranzer How is BitBay team being funded?
dzimbeck sender is hidden because messages are passed around making it hard to find the origin
dzimbeck decoding messages is plausible deniability because nobody knows if you have decryption key
dzimbeck (a market is a shared key)
dzimbeck @shtand A great seller would be someone with tons of contracts that didn't blow up
RQDxRocket joined #trading_altcoins.
arigard What about transactions, are they hidden too?
Munti @kimchi BitBay in itself does not need profit. The holders of the coin will get their profit from higher value because we gain adoption. and we are years ahead in this race, so should have a decent chance to increase price a lot
dzimbeck @kimchi I don't profit much from BitBay. We are mostly self funded
moon joined #trading_altcoins.
ulyssessyoungo Yeah it's not a centralized service so i don't see why it would need "profit" given that it's just a network
btcmacroecon does bitbay have any interest in their service being used with other projects to form a marketplace? any room for collaboration if buyers / sellers can be rounded up for establishing marketplace, reputation, including commodity trading?
ulyssessyoungo BAY is POS right?
tranzer Is BitBay POS or mineable or what consensus algo does it use?
dzimbeck @arigard Transactions aren't anon
dzimbeck but I'm a big ffan of zero knowledge proofs
dzimbeck There is ways to hide the person broadcasting using Bitmessage
dzimbeck but I haven't implemented
dzimbeck I'm a purist so if an anon route is chosen later then it will be on a very high level
arigard Will you be looking to do those kinds of things in the future? Maybe something like Zerocoin etc?
dzimbeck @tranzer POS
kimchi When can I see the beta version?
Munti @kimchi Also, Double deposit escrow ties up a lot of money, so when marketplace becomes really active , that will have tremendous impact on coin supply (reduced supply because of DDE). An average daily turnover on our marketplace of 1k dollars can create demand for as much as 30k-50k dollars worth of Bay (edited)
dzimbeck Maybe a side chain arigard
dzimbeck Since the main chain doesn't need to be anon
dzimbeck also anon would interfere with the rolling peg
dzimbeck Jesus zero proof:heart_eyes:
dzimbeck depending on what i choose for it
donze What is actual year trade volume of bitbay?
Munti @btcmacroecon BitBay is open for working with partners
dzimbeck @ulyssessyoungo yeah profit from escrow is not wise since it eliminates the middle man, we would not want the liability
dzimbeck also I meant to say earlier
dzimbeck these contracts work with employees too
dzimbeck so an employee is forced to honor his/her word
dzimbeck and employer is forced to pay
dzimbeck so no more unreliable outsourcers
Munti @donze Trade volume varies a lot like it does for most coins
dzimbeck It's been over a million a lot
btcmacroecon what do you think about creating a trading floor for commodities, or whatever "product" or "service" say "electronics" or "beer" or "metals"
dzimbeck but then it goes down to 50-500k
dzimbeck We don't fake our volume
dzimbeck :smile:
dzimbeck that is why, this is a very organic project
dzimbeck You see I used to be BitHalo
dzimbeck which was years before Ethereum
dzimbeck and was hired on to the BitBay project, the people who hired me disappeared
dzimbeck so the community and myself took it over
dzimbeck making it pretty organic
ulyssessyoungo I have been in your Slack for some time, i can vouch that you guys seem to be one of the more transparent teams.
Munti @btcmacroecon We already kind of have a trading floor for commodities. We have a fully working marketplace. In one of the comming updates we will also add templates for auctions.
dzimbeck BitHalo is still active but it's worth pointing out that all new templates and features will be withheld from BitHalo to give BitBay maximum impact
Bitbay1 uploaded this image: m2.jpg 1 Comment
btcmacroecon i like the concept and not of ebay as a seller given their fees, or as a buyer with paypal.
ulyssessyoungo lol those boots
dzimbeck Ebays biggest problem is scam buyers
dzimbeck no way to stop it
dzimbeck In our platform that is not going to happen
dzimbeck And let me stress something else
dzimbeck This is Bitcoin
dzimbeck which is anonymous
dzimbeck so scams are more prevalent
dzimbeck which is why it shocks me
dzimbeck that this isn't the industry standard for escrow
btcmacroecon but the man is wise
dzimbeck Plus we don't have to deal with arbiters
dzimbeck the analogy is you go to court... would you trust 12 peers and a judge to decide your fate?
dzimbeck I wouldn't
dzimbeck A witness where it's your word against theirs
dzimbeck This is a better system. There is no judge
dzimbeck just perp and victim
btcmacroecon i havent been to court once where the truth was spoken
dzimbeck empowering victims a little bit more
dzimbeck "instant karma"
dzimbeck That is exactly why I made this
btcmacroecon i had proof attorney was lying but judge refused to let me play it as i ha proo
dzimbeck Oh jesus
dzimbeck that sucks
btcmacroecon i was going to hit play in courtroom but she freaked out on the bench said i would not play it in her courtroom!
V01D Would there be any backlash against the name bitbay in the future if a company like eBay felt threatened?
dzimbeck Yeah also realize that losing a deposit makes a victim feel like the person who screwed them paid for it
btcmacroecon protected the liar
dzimbeck I don't think so but we can always rebrand
dzimbeck there is an exchange called BitBay too
dzimbeck timing was almost the same as ours
btcmacroecon 591 price on bay on bittrex
dzimbeck we had an international presence first
dzimbeck As for price
Munti @VO1D I don't see how ebay could do something about that. But then I'm not a lawyer
dzimbeck This IS a trading channel
V01D I see, thank you
dzimbeck we should talk about the rolling peg
btcmacroecon i sold all bay at 860
dzimbeck So when the project started I wasn't the founder
btcmacroecon pissed i could have got 870
dzimbeck so I knew there had to be a way to protect investors in case something bad happened
Munti LOL
dzimbeck So the rolling peg was designed
dzimbeck similar to an economic crawling peg
dzimbeck The way it works is this: we can control the supply of the coin by simply freezing it
dzimbeck so as most coins only inflate
dzimbeck this coin does both
dzimbeck it inflates and deflates
yin :open_mouth:
dzimbeck but it only freezes the coins temporarily to stop dumps on the market
dzimbeck and it does so exactly fairly
codnose It's been a bad 24 hours for lots of alts. It will bounce back @btcmacroecon ;)
dzimbeck coins have memory in this system so each coin knows it's own liquidity
funkedelics proof to back up your claim? Munti Actually particl (then shadowcoin) tried to hire David to make the marketplace for them many years ago. When he declined, they tried to revers enginer his code. They failed :slightly_smiling_face: Posted in #trading_altcoinsToday at 7:09 PM
dzimbeck reddit
btcmacroecon yah i hope to reposition on this coin as we speak
codnose Good few days for bay recently. I'm holding since a while back
dzimbeck there is proof where I fought with veritasBS from ShadowCash
dzimbeck They tried to reverse my code
Bitbay1 Freezing via decentralized voting?
dzimbeck it was famous
funkedelics link?
Munti @funkedelics On reddit as David said. I'm sure we can find a link for you after this session is over
dzimbeck Someone else can find it
dzimbeck @funkedelics
dzimbeck It is on the blackcoin subreddit
btcmacroecon what are you doing to avoid illegal activity, kyc, and silk road activity?
dzimbeck if you wanna look
dzimbeck @btcmacroecon I have a mod key which users subscribe to
dzimbeck which is handed out
dzimbeck so decentralized mod i guess
dzimbeck also users encrypt their IP within their orders
dzimbeck so if for some reason a swat team shows up at my house I just tell them they are free to use it
kimchi What is the return or refund?..
dzimbeck In theory we shouldn't need to deal with silk road type problems
btcmacroecon id say get a fkn warrant, shut the door
dzimbeck since we don't host anything
dzimbeck That too
codnose Rolling peg sounds very interesting. Is there a link here?
dzimbeck But we don't live in a fair world @btcmacroecon
dzimbeck USA arrested a guy in Greece who was a Russian citizen
dzimbeck nonsense
btcmacroecon and those that vote i big corrupt government blame trump
dzimbeck https://bitbay.market/about/pegging/ BitBay Rolling Peg - BitBay Price volatility is cryptocurrency's biggest challenge - BitBay's rolling peg will reduce volatility by dynamically controlling supply. Learn more here.
dzimbeck Never blame Trump
dzimbeck blame military intelligence
dzimbeck and compartmentalization
Munti @codnose our site is going through a little redesign atm, but the info on the rolling peg will be back up soon
btcmacroecon new vorld odor! I blame "globalism"
imyb commented on Bitbay1’s file m2.jpg Is this really what it's going to look like?
dzimbeck :smile:
codnose Great thanks @Munti
Munti LOL, it was back up (edited)
dzimbeck well whatever powerful people do
dzimbeck it's our job to come up with solutions like unbreakable contracts
dzimbeck these contracts work in an anarchy
dzimbeck literally
dzimbeck The rolling peg is meant to allow low cap coins
dzimbeck to thrive
little_round @imyb No, it will be changed
dzimbeck because the control of supply lets us force the price
dzimbeck by voting on supply
yin damn your product sounds awesome! but you need a redesign of your website :smile:
dzimbeck so example
btcmacroecon so you in essence have a dashboard already active.
dzimbeck if a user has 1000 coins at 100% at .10 cents per coin
WeeMan Mike joined #trading_altcoins.
dzimbeck and the network deflates to 50%
dzimbeck he would have 500 coins liquid and 500 frozen
Munti @btcmacroecon What do you mean by dashboard?
dzimbeck he can move the liquid coins as much as he wants
btcmacroecon you have a marketplace or dashboard like ebay has basically?
dzimbeck the frozen coins he can move but with a penalty a one month delay
Munti @btcmacroecon Yes (edited)
dzimbeck which makes a secondary market for trading frozen coins
codnose Like the eBay dashboard right @btcmacroecon ?
dzimbeck at a more speculative value
btcmacroecon you just need to expand on it with volume
Bitbay1 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9hEpu8gZMzEcP22rMYX0Iw/videos YouTube BitBay Official BitBay youtube channel
dzimbeck we can assume his liquid coins would be worth about double than before if demand is about the same
btcmacroecon do you offer any affiliate programs to market for that volume?
dzimbeck Good idea
dzimbeck @btcmacroecon Working on that now
dzimbeck We have just started discussions about incentives
dzimbeck @kimchi please elaborate
dzimbeck return or refund on what?
kimchi I bought shoes. But what if a brick comes? There is an image on top that sells shoes.
dzimbeck Then seller would pay 100 dollars
dzimbeck if you blow it up
dzimbeck so negotiate a refund
dzimbeck the seller will most definitely reconsider
dzimbeck since he doesn't want to pay 100 dollars to be a joker
dzimbeck You can cancel contracts
dzimbeck returning all funds
Anoeng joined #trading_altcoins.
dzimbeck upon mutual consent
dzimbeck everything is consent
btcmacroecon does bitbay have the ability to accept payment in a variety of cryptocurrency? I think that's where volume could come in, or a gateway to exchange tokens and buyer / seller can arrive at payment and yet can be worked via bitbay smart contract or escrowing? could that work, is it possible, if not care to explore it?
dzimbeck the way a contract should be
dzimbeck Yes
codnose Ha that's awesome actually. Why would a seller send anything else knowing they'd lose their deposit ?
dzimbeck You can use Ark to pay
dzimbeck Bay is only used as a deposit
dzimbeck you might have to specify the coins you would accept in your contract
ulyssessyoungo nice
ulyssessyoungo i like that
btcmacroecon and what about dogecoin for example?
codnose Yeah that's cool
ulyssessyoungo Definitely adds to the viability of the platform
codnose Whatcoin? Lol
dzimbeck yeah codnose it forces honesty
dzimbeck and the same for employees
Munti @btcmacroecon Also, our platform is very broad. You can use it for almost anything. We already had all kinds of things sold there from pins to property. Many coins have also been sold there. Our market is like an improved localbitcoin. Binary opptions is also you can find on our marketoplace regularly. And I'm sure we havent even scrathced the surface yet. In the future we will have API's so ppl can tailor their own version of our marketplace.
dzimbeck if I hire someone using this system
btcmacroecon ok deposit only, making more sense now
ulyssessyoungo BAY as a currency would certainly take off best after the Rolling Peg
dzimbeck they better do what they say
ulyssessyoungo but in the meantime that's awesome that you can use other coins
dzimbeck I actually used to it motivate myself
Bitbay1 Why not sell Ark for Bay on the market :slightly_smiling_face:
Bitbay1 or Btc
dzimbeck had my friend blow up my money if I didn't do my daily errands
dzimbeck imagine having 10 grand deterrent
dzimbeck :smile:
bivins Greetings
dzimbeck You can trade coins on the market
dzimbeck especially microtrade
codnose You bought some land using this you said @Munti ?
dzimbeck but it is slow
dzimbeck for that I recommend atomic trade
dzimbeck It's not that fast paced trading that traders demand...
dzimbeck but
codnose No worries about losing any money ? I take it it wasn't just a few dollars
dzimbeck Someone did sell IOTA on our platform
dzimbeck and did lots of deals
Bitbay1 yes before IOTA came into the exchanges
Munti @codnose Yes I did. Got the paperwork in the mail today. 5 acres of land in California. (And I live in Norway) (edited)
prasanth can we stake coins in the market client??
Munti Yes
dzimbeck Staking is done using 2 keys
dzimbeck so you can actually stake over LAN too
tranzer Could BitBay somehow bridge with Ark and offer their services to Ark users?
dzimbeck using 2 computers
dzimbeck it's called "cold staking"
dzimbeck no hacking is possible here
dzimbeck ever
dzimbeck you can hide keys in images
btcmacroecon ok i admit failure on setting up CoinURL as I tried to set up online store, to sell some code, my wildlife photography, and rocks and gems I prospect, I'd like to set up BitBay on an Iframe into my site, and capture affiliate biz. Sounds like this is almost possible, and I could sell my jade right through my site, at least offer it up, right?
dzimbeck and have dual passwords and use 2 computers to sign transactions automated
Munti @tranzer We would have to look into that. But I don't see any reason why we could not.
dzimbeck We need a web wallet
dzimbeck that is our biggest challenge
dzimbeck since I made this with a "security first" attitude
dzimbeck being a cryptographer (edited)
dzimbeck I forgot the reason to make everything web based
Munti @btcmacroecon We are not quite there yet, but yes, that's where we're going
dzimbeck Didn't want to sacrifice security
dzimbeck now I realize there is a need for web based platforms
codnose I follow you on twitter and saw that mentioned the other day. It's coming soon? @dzimbeck
dzimbeck that sacrifice a little security for speed and ease of use in phones
dzimbeck A web wallet?
codnose Yeah
dzimbeck Yeah well we will have a basic web wallet very soon
dzimbeck its actually a very nice one (edited)
dzimbeck But I was referring to a market wallet
dzimbeck one with the full contract implementation
dzimbeck we hope to do that after the peg is successful
Munti Keep an eye on our next weekly update (sunday) for roadmap for the rest of this year. You will get details there
dzimbeck since it's more important to deliver on what I promise
dzimbeck than to make up new features
dzimbeck aka "scope creep" a programmers worst enemy
mergatroid Hello
dzimbeck Hi
mergatroid Please comment on recent news around SEC delistings on bittrex - what steps are you taking to communicate with user base as to whether your a security and what you plan to do if you are classified as such
dzimbeck The rolling peg is the priority
dzimbeck Since Tether is unreliable
dzimbeck this is a decentralized peg
dzimbeck that isn't fixed at a certain price
dzimbeck so it can "roll" the price up
codnose Sounds like you have a lot of nice things planned :)
dzimbeck so it starts at say 5 cents
dzimbeck and slowly rolls up to 10 cents
dzimbeck over X amount of time
dzimbeck after that we would love to focus on web implementations
dzimbeck however anyone who wants to plug this into their site should contact us, we can set up some API calls for sure
Munti @mergatroid I just became aware of the SEC issue on Bittrex today, and have not had time to study it. But going by the little I did read, it doesn't seem to be a problem for us.
mergatroid Ok - so no plan so far understand
dzimbeck we aren't a security
dzimbeck because we don't pay dividends
mergatroid Thankyou
codnose Just on your website now @dzimbeck @Munti
dr10 OK we are approaching 1 hour mark. If you guys have any questions left, go ahead. Anything bitbay.market team would like to add or tell - feel free to do.
V01D Thanks for your time bitbay team
dzimbeck Thanks for doing this! It was fun. And maybe I have a few questions about Ark later
dzimbeck :slightly_smiling_face:
codnose Looking good. Thanks for stopping by :)
dzimbeck Any other questions?
dzimbeck Perhaps regarding the peg, contracts or markets?
Boris Is dzimbeck a god?
dzimbeck :smile:
dzimbeck no
dzimbeck I bleed
codnose Haha I'd heard that too
codnose At least in coding terms lol
dr10 Thank you David and Bjørn for taking the time to do this AMA! All the best with the project and you are always welcome to hang around our Slack
Munti If anyone wants more info, you are welcome to our slack http://bitbay.market/wp-login.php?action=slack-invitation
dzimbeck Honestly a little bit of effort is all these things take
dzimbeck Thanks dr10
Munti Thanks for having us. This was fun
submitted by Dr10tv to BitBay [link] [comments]

[PSA] Common Trade Scams and How to Avoid Them

This is a cross-post from /tf2trade after I requested someone revise our old guide on trade scams and how to avoid them. Many thanks to mostlylurkingmostly for assembling it.
/SGS guide on avoiding scams available here.
List as of 22nd of September 2013.
1. The fake link/phishing scam
One of the most common scam nowadays. This is a phishing technique used by many, especially on TF2Outpost. Phishing links are websites that trick you into giving them your account details (Steam username, password, e-mail username, e-mail password). After you gave your account details away, the phisher would change the email account tied to your steam account as well as the password, after moving your items and Steam wallet to one of his accounts.
Avoiding them : Be vigilant whenever you're clicking on a link. Make sure what you're clicking on is spelled correctly. Also, dmn002 wrote a chrome extension to block misspelled websites. Do check it out!
2. Taking the items and leave scam ...- thecommieduck
This scam involves someone asking to purchase an item of yours with something that they never intended to pay but they dazzle the person with the ease/value of the transaction. This is also sometimes accompanied by a fake Sourceop link for rep to show they're good-- never trust links the other person gives you. After receiving the item, they'll delete you. Your item would not be given back to you after the trade is done. This also applies to game codes.
Avoiding them: Steam > Settings > Interface > Display steam URL address bar when available. When someone adds you and say that they'll pay your buyout, copy and paste their steam url to www.steamrep.com After making sure that they have no scammer tags, find a middleman to help you with the trade. Be sure to check the "Search Steamrep Forums" button. (In red here). Even if the person is not tagged yet, they may still have pending reports of them as a scammer.
3. The Impersonation scam
Impersonators will copy a trusted trader's or one of your friend's profile down to the last detail and approach you saying they are interested in buying or borrowing something from you. They will claim to have a lot of REP so that you should go first in the trade. After you have given them the items, he would delete you and your item will never be seen again. Common targets for impersonation are the people from the SourceOP Trusted Seller group. A good way to check is the level of English they use. All of them are fluent in English, so they are unlikely to be incoherent in what they say. Also most of them are more mature traders, and are less likely to try and push you into a deal like an impetuous 5 year old.
P.S. -- Valve would most probably not return your item back to you.
Avoiding them:
Steam > Settings > Interface > Display steam URL address bar when available. When someone adds you and say that they'll pay your buyout, copy and paste their steam url to www.steamrep.com After making sure that they have no scammer tags, find a middleman to help you with the trade. Also, it's really important to search steamrep forums' to be sure that there are no scam reports pending for the person.
Always double check before a transaction. Some of the most heartbreaking scams have been because of impersonating friends' profiles.
4. Fake middleman scam
Fake middleman scam is similar to the impersonator scam. The scam would involve 3 people - Victim, 'Fake middleman', and the 'accomplice'. The accomplice would approach you, asking to pay the buyout of your item(s). You checked his profile/backpack/SteamRep and everything seems okay. They would suggest a middleman and you would agree to it. Suddenly, the 'fake middleman' joins the chat and shows you his Steamrep/SourceOP/Dota2Traders page and you would think that he's legit. After giving him your items, they would both delete and block you, never to be seen again.
Avoiding them: Do not rush into trades. Make sure that the middleman is legit by clicking their portrait in the group chat window and visiting their Steam page, then cross-referencing it with SteamRep. Common sign/s are - Private profile/backpack.
5. Swap/QuickSwitch Scam
This scam involves the victim thinking they're getting one item but got another instead. Here's what happens: Someone would add you and said that he'll be willing to do a trade. He'll then put up X and you'll put up the items you're paying for it. Without you noticing, he'll quickly switch it to another item of less value. The item might also be renamed to suit X so that you wouldn't notice anything amiss in the chat window of the trade. After trading, he will get away with your items.
Quickswitch scams are quite common among low-grade scammers. It also involves misdirection -- they'll ask you a question in Steam chat so you switch windows, they'll swap the item while you're typing, then ask you to add another item or remove one of them. Then you both approve the trade. QuickSwitch has become more of a "ConmanSwitch" than something done only in rushed trades.
Avoiding them: Always make sure that the items for the trade are the items you agreed on. Do not click ready until you make sure the trade is good to go.
6. Charge back scam
This scam involves someone charging back the amount of money he sent you after receiving the item. The scammer sends funds over Paypal or a similar service, then, after receiving the item from you, contacts his/her bank to protest the transaction. The money returns to the scammer and they get away with the item.
Avoiding them: Make sure the person you're trading with has enough rep and is trustworthy. Avoid too good to be true deals and selling big stuff all at once, like hooks, timebreakers, and unusuals unless they're to a trustworthy person. Moneypak and BitCoin are non-refundable, but require more effort on the buyer's side.
For Chargeback scams, we should also recommend that (for maximum risk avoidance) that the buyer's cash rep should extend much far beyond 90 days in the past. In an ideal world, you are never selling to someone with lots of cash rep that only goes 90 days back (the most common chargeback window for PayPal purchases). As a rule of thumb selling anything major, ignore any cash rep in the last 90 days and your ideal scenario is that their older cash rep should definitely total more than what the current transaction is. That way you have a sign that they are invested in their rep and aren't gaining more by charging back than they are giving up in historical reputation they've built up.
7. Delayed Payment Scam - thecommieduck
This scam involves someone asking you to give/borrow him an item or two for a short period of time. After you've given him the item, he'll delete you with your items.
Avoiding them: Never lend an item you aren't willing to lose to find out if your friend is a traitor.
8. Fake profile rep
Whenever you're doing a high-value/ cash trades, please be aware that Steam profile rep can easily be faked. Never trust the amount of profile rep one has when doing such trades. Comments can be deleted by the owner of the profile, so negative rep will always be lost.
9. Two-man (tag team) scam
There are a couple of variations on this tricky scam. In the first variation, a person adds you. He says he wants to buy an item for a high price (more than the usual price). A second person gets in contact to say they are selling the very same item that person one wants to buy. So you buy it from person 2 at the price they ask for, then both people delete you and you're stuck with an item you didn't want to begin with.
In the second variation, person A says he has the new pudge hair. When you add him he says his brother works at Valve and got a bunch of promo codes that will activate the pudge hair. He then all of a sudden add another person (B) in to the chat. Person B says he wants the pudge hair and person A says "it is a code" and person B will be say "hey, it's okay, I want the code, I will trade you so and so." You now get nervous and think you might miss the deal and you will outbid him. You trade him the item and he removes you.
Avoiding the scam: Never, ever rush trades. If it's too good to be true, it is. Always take your time and this scam will not happen. Also, trading for codes is dangerous.
10. Fake items/nametag scam
This scam relies on the trader's inability to distinguish between a real item and a faked item with a name tag or description tag. Simply put, the scammer renames and describes an item similar to the one you think you are trading for. If you do not notice the difference, you trade for the fraudulent item and lose in the trade.
Avoiding the scam: Check the item in the trade window multiple times to make sure. It will say whether the item was renamed or not. Also check the match ID if it is a faked tournament item.
11. Trade offeSteam Wallet scam
This scam revolves around the Steam Trade Offers feature, and plays on an old scam at the same time. The scammer sends you a trade offer for your items, offering nothing in return, and types in the message box that they are offering you Steam Wallet. You accept the offer and they never send the Steam Wallet, so you lose your items.
Avoiding the scam: NEVER accept Steam Trade Offers where you receive nothing, unless you are certain that this is correct. Also, you will never receive any messages saying that someone is offering you Steam Wallet.
12. E-mail confirmation scam
The scammer sends you an offer for an item, then requests that you forward the e-mail from Steam asking for confirmation of the trade to the scammer. Do not do this, because the link in the e-mail is not tied to IP or e-mail, and can be verified from any location. You will lose your item this way.
Read more here: https://redd.it/3i41ky
Thanks to - thecommieduck, thorax, cdxliv, neocow, anonymousdeity, EXAX, mostlylurkingmostly, Rhys13th and others.
submitted by musical_hog to Dota2Trade [link] [comments]

NEW TRADERS READ HERE TO AVOID BEING SCAMMED

Due to an influx of new traders from TI4 getting scammed with injection and fake MM scams, we've stickied Hammy's guide on trade scams. If you are a new trader please look over these scams, if you are selling for paypal/WU or any other non-Steam supported method please pay careful attention to the middleman injection and impersonator sections.
READ BEFORE DOING REAL MONEY TRADES
  1. You should be in a multi-user chat when someone is middlemaning your trade.
  2. From your multi-user chat you can check all parties involved for legitimacy (always do this before trading).
  3. Start by going from the chat into the buyeMM profile like this: http://i.imgur.com/QtD4qAD.png
  4. Copy the url from the user (in this example the buyer): http://i.imgur.com/EInGsEk.jpg
  5. Go to steamrep.com and paste the user url into the search box.
  6. On the page check for pending reports and use other search functions to look for scam reports: http://i.imgur.com/vUMFk4D.png
  7. Using the same method check to ensure your middleman is official: http://i.imgur.com/yGgHfCm.png
  8. If everything checks out it is safe to go forward with the trade. If anyone leaves the multi-person chat be sure to check them again if they come back in.
  9. Remember to check as many times as you feel necessary, we are very patient when it comes to ensuring the safety of both the buyer and seller.
  10. A reminder to never trade with anyone marked with a SR scammer tag, such as this piece of human shit: http://i.imgur.com/tSyyZ6M.png
This is a cross-post from /tf2trade after I requested someone revise our old guide on trade scams and how to avoid them. Many thanks to mostlylurkingmostly for assembling it.
/SGS guide on avoiding scams available here.
List as of 22nd of September 2013.
1. Fake middleman scam
Fake middleman scam is similar to the impersonator scam. The scam would involve 3 people - Victim, 'Fake middleman', and the 'accomplice'. The accomplice would approach you, asking to pay the buyout of your item(s). You checked his profile/backpack/SteamRep and everything seems okay. They would suggest a middleman and you would agree to it. Suddenly, the 'fake middleman' joins the chat and shows you his Steamrep/SourceOP/Dota2Traders page and you would think that he's legit. After giving him your items, they would both delete and block you, never to be seen again.
Note: Anytime someone asks to use a friend from your friendslist who is not an official MM they are either attempting to scam you or your friend. Always decline their offer and insist on an official MM.
Avoiding them: Do not rush into trades. Make sure that the middleman is legit by clicking their portrait in the group chat window and visiting their Steam page, then cross-referencing it with SteamRep. Common sign/s are - Private profile/backpack.
2. The Impersonation scam
Impersonators will copy a trusted trader's or one of your friend's profile down to the last detail and approach you saying they are interested in buying or borrowing something from you. They will claim to have a lot of REP so that you should go first in the trade. After you have given them the items, he would delete you and your item will never be seen again. Common targets for impersonation are the people from the SourceOP Trusted Seller group. A good way to check is the level of English they use. All of them are fluent in English, so they are unlikely to be incoherent in what they say. Also most of them are more mature traders, and are less likely to try and push you into a deal like an impetuous 5 year old.
P.S. -- Valve would most probably not return your item back to you.
Avoiding them:
Steam > Settings > Interface > Display steam URL address bar when available. When someone adds you and say that they'll pay your buyout, copy and paste their steam url to www.steamrep.com After making sure that they have no scammer tags, find a middleman to help you with the trade. Also, it's really important to search steamrep forums' to be sure that there are no scam reports pending for the person.
Always double check before a transaction. Some of the most heartbreaking scams have been because of impersonating friends' profiles.
3. Taking the items and leave scam ...- thecommieduck
This scam involves someone asking to purchase an item of yours with something that they never intended to pay but they dazzle the person with the ease/value of the transaction. This is also sometimes accompanied by a fake Sourceop link for rep to show they're good-- never trust links the other person gives you. After receiving the item, they'll delete you. Your item would not be given back to you after the trade is done. This also applies to game codes.
Avoiding them: Steam > Settings > Interface > Display steam URL address bar when available. When someone adds you and say that they'll pay your buyout, copy and paste their steam url to www.steamrep.com After making sure that they have no scammer tags, find a middleman to help you with the trade. Be sure to check the "Search Steamrep Forums" button. (In red here). Even if the person is not tagged yet, they may still have pending reports of them as a scammer.
4. The fake link/phishing scam
One of the most common scam nowadays. This is a phishing technique used by many, especially on TF2Outpost. Phishing links are websites that trick you into giving them your account details (Steam username, password, e-mail username, e-mail password). After you gave your account details away, the phisher would change the email account tied to your steam account as well as the password, after moving your items and Steam wallet to one of his accounts.
Avoiding them : Be vigilant whenever you're clicking on a link. Make sure what you're clicking on is spelled correctly. Also, dmn002 wrote a chrome extension to block misspelled websites. Do check it out!
5. Swap/QuickSwitch Scam
This scam involves the victim thinking they're getting one item but got another instead. Here's what happens: Someone would add you and said that he'll be willing to do a trade. He'll then put up X and you'll put up the items you're paying for it. Without you noticing, he'll quickly switch it to another item of less value. The item might also be renamed to suit X so that you wouldn't notice anything amiss in the chat window of the trade. After trading, he will get away with your items.
Quickswitch scams are quite common among low-grade scammers. It also involves misdirection -- they'll ask you a question in Steam chat so you switch windows, they'll swap the item while you're typing, then ask you to add another item or remove one of them. Then you both approve the trade. QuickSwitch has become more of a "ConmanSwitch" than something done only in rushed trades.
Avoiding them: Always make sure that the items for the trade are the items you agreed on. Do not click ready until you make sure the trade is good to go.
6. Charge back scam
This scam involves someone charging back the amount of money he sent you after receiving the item. The scammer sends funds over Paypal or a similar service, then, after receiving the item from you, contacts his/her bank to protest the transaction. The money returns to the scammer and they get away with the item.
Avoiding them: Make sure the person you're trading with has enough rep and is trustworthy. Avoid too good to be true deals and selling big stuff all at once, like hooks, timebreakers, and unusuals unless they're to a trustworthy person. Moneypak and BitCoin are non-refundable, but require more effort on the buyer's side.
For Chargeback scams, we should also recommend that (for maximum risk avoidance) that the buyer's cash rep should extend much far beyond 90 days in the past. In an ideal world, you are never selling to someone with lots of cash rep that only goes 90 days back (the most common chargeback window for PayPal purchases). As a rule of thumb selling anything major, ignore any cash rep in the last 90 days and your ideal scenario is that their older cash rep should definitely total more than what the current transaction is. That way you have a sign that they are invested in their rep and aren't gaining more by charging back than they are giving up in historical reputation they've built up.
7. Delayed Payment Scam - thecommieduck
This scam involves someone asking you to give/borrow him an item or two for a short period of time. After you've given him the item, he'll delete you with your items.
Avoiding them: Never lend an item you aren't willing to lose to find out if your friend is a traitor.
8. Fake profile rep
Whenever you're doing a high-value/ cash trades, please be aware that Steam profile rep can easily be faked. Never trust the amount of profile rep one has when doing such trades. Comments can be deleted by the owner of the profile, so negative rep will always be lost.
9. Two-man (tag team) scam
There are a couple of variations on this tricky scam. In the first variation, a person adds you. He says he wants to buy an item for a high price (more than the usual price). A second person gets in contact to say they are selling the very same item that person one wants to buy. So you buy it from person 2 at the price they ask for, then both people delete you and you're stuck with an item you didn't want to begin with.
In the second variation, person A says he has the new pudge hair. When you add him he says his brother works at Valve and got a bunch of promo codes that will activate the pudge hair. He then all of a sudden add another person (B) in to the chat. Person B says he wants the pudge hair and person A says "it is a code" and person B will be say "hey, it's okay, I want the code, I will trade you so and so." You now get nervous and think you might miss the deal and you will outbid him. You trade him the item and he removes you.
Avoiding the scam: Never, ever rush trades. If it's too good to be true, it is. Always take your time and this scam will not happen. Also, trading for codes is dangerous.
10. Fake items/nametag scam
This scam relies on the trader's inability to distinguish between a real item and a faked item with a name tag or description tag. Simply put, the scammer renames and describes an item similar to the one you think you are trading for. If you do not notice the difference, you trade for the fraudulent item and lose in the trade.
Avoiding the scam: Check the item in the trade window multiple times to make sure. It will say whether the item was renamed or not. Also check the match ID if it is a faked tournament item.
11. Trade offeSteam Wallet scam
This scam revolves around the Steam Trade Offers feature, and plays on an old scam at the same time. The scammer sends you a trade offer for your items, offering nothing in return, and types in the message box that they are offering you Steam Wallet. You accept the offer and they never send the Steam Wallet, so you lose your items.
Avoiding the scam: NEVER accept Steam Trade Offers where you receive nothing, unless you are certain that this is correct. Also, you will never receive any messages saying that someone is offering you Steam Wallet.
Thanks to - thecommieduck, thorax, cdxliv, neocow, anonymousdeity, EXAX, mostlylurkingmostly, Rhys13th and others.
submitted by Eternal_Mr_Bones to Dota2Trade [link] [comments]

Log of AMA with bitbay.market - @dzimbeck (David Zimbeck), @Munti (Bjørn Alsos)

dr10 Let us all welcome team from :bitbay: bitbay.market :bitbay: - @dzimbeck (David zimbeck ) and @Munti (Bjørn Alsos). You can all start asking them questions. I'd ask team from bitbay.market to use @ username to the one they are responding to and I'd like to ask all the community to give them some time to catch up if too many questions in backlog, before asking more so questions don't get lost. Thank you!
dzimbeck Hi
dr10 Hello
Munti Hi
dzimbeck Wow you guys have quite the slack. 7k people
dzimbeck very professional site too, always noticed that
dr10 haha, yeah grew a bit over time
dzimbeck Also a decent domain.
arigard @dzimbeck Man, I remember you from back in the day in Blackcoin
dzimbeck Haha yes that is where I started
dr10 okay guys, start with your questions :wink:
Munti Is there anyone helping us keep track of any questions we might miss because we are busy answering?
dzimbeck But I'm not the dev of Blackcoin
dzimbeck I only wrote Halo into it because I needed an alt
dr10 I have an eye on the chat and people notice when you didnt answer it, dont worry :smile:
dzimbeck and didn't want to start a pump thing
tranzer What is BitBay in few words. Are you anonymous marketplace? (edited)
dzimbeck Unbreakable contracts, Anonymous serverless markets and rolling peg
dzimbeck all of those features are extremely important for decentralization and computer science in general
dzimbeck "Unbreakable contracts" is the non-technical term for "Double deposit escrow"
dzimbeck It works by both parties placing a deposit in a joint account
dzimbeck and if they cheat each other they both lose their funds when the time limit expires
dzimbeck making the contract somewhat unbreakable
dzimbeck regardless of what is agreed to
btcmacroecon what if one cheats the other?
dzimbeck since it's a joint account
btcmacroecon hunt them down?
dzimbeck you need that person to sign off
dzimbeck so they lose money
dzimbeck they can't cheat you
dzimbeck example:
dzimbeck you want to buy a guitar
dzimbeck which costs 100 dollars
dzimbeck so you put up a deposit of 100 and also 100 into the joint account
dzimbeck the seller also puts up 100 to guarantee shipping and their own honesty
dzimbeck when the seller sends the guitar if you steal it
dzimbeck then seller won't sign off on the contract
dzimbeck causing both parties to lose money
dzimbeck (you just paid 200 for a 100 dollar it)
dzimbeck So this forces users to work together
dzimbeck better than E-bay with arbiters
dzimbeck in fact.. I am shocked this isn't the industry standard
tranzer Are there any limits on how much can someone sell or buy item for?
dzimbeck I've been doing this for 4 years since BitHalo started
Munti When you use double deposit escrow, your protection is based upon the fact that no one can gain anything by breaking the deal. That pretty much eliminates scammers as there is no incentive for them.
btcmacroecon what if the seller "says" the other stole the guitar, when in reality it was received, it's jus seller wont sign off on it to be a dick
dzimbeck No limits
dzimbeck and deposits are negotiable (edited)
donze Nice idea
ulyssessyoungo interesting
dzimbeck @btcmacroecon Because the seller will lose money if he does
Munti I actually just bought a property in our marketplace. Got the paperwork in the mail today
donze Your market is active?
dzimbeck Being a dick doesn't profit a dime
donze Or work in progress
dzimbeck It actually costs money to be a dick
dzimbeck which is what we WANT
arigard @dzimbeck is that similar to the two way mad escrow Particl are working on?
ulyssessyoungo I like the sound of that
dzimbeck we want jerks to be broke
dzimbeck we want politicians to be the ones begging for food on the street
ulyssessyoungo do you have any system beyond that
Munti Our marketplace has been operational since early 2015
ulyssessyoungo to see if people honor the contracts?
ulyssessyoungo like user history or something
dzimbeck Oh there is tons of systems in BitBay
little_round Particl took it from bitbay
dzimbeck we actually have a wall of features
ulyssessyoungo I mean like
ulyssessyoungo say a guy has a history of blowing up contracts
dzimbeck http://bitbay.market/wall
ulyssessyoungo are those people easily identified as bad business?
tranzer Do you have numbers of how many people "were dicks" and how much was already agreed upon in your marketplace (like yearly turnaround)?
dzimbeck Yes
dzimbeck You can see how many contracts their profile has blown up
dzimbeck so you can mathematically calculate what their deposit should be!
dzimbeck It's like the perfect escrow for p2p transactions
ulyssessyoungo that's nice
Munti Actually particl (then shadowcoin) tried to hire David to make the marketplace for them many years ago. When he declined, they tried to revers enginer his code. They failed :slightly_smiling_face:
ulyssessyoungo So like a reputation system?
ulyssessyoungo I always check vendor reputations on alibaba, amazon etc.
arigard @Munti really? Interesting..
dzimbeck And it's been working for 3+ years it was actually the worlds first smart contracts
dzimbeck Yep
btcmacroecon is there a scenario when a seller would lose money if it harmed the buyer, even if seller loses money, adversely affecting the buyer, even if guitar received, to cause buyer to lose money? Or woul buyer come out ahead cause of guitar, or would that mean net loss for buyer in this scenario, despite "seller wouldn't do it cause he loses money assumption"
dzimbeck we have a reputation system
dzimbeck Yes you are right
dzimbeck but consider this @btcmacroecon
shtand Does the seller always match 100% of the value of what they're selling?
dzimbeck The seller does cause buyer to lose
dzimbeck but now they have proof they are blowing up contracts
dzimbeck who would want to work with that seller later?
dzimbeck Also that seller would be asked in future deals for a LARGER deposit
btcmacroecon ok and ebay has good marketplace for reputation.
dzimbeck meaning being a jerk is progressive;y cost inhibitive
dzimbeck And this reputation system there is no way to lie about it
Munti @dzimbeck I just noticed we both forget to use @ to make it clear who we are answering
dzimbeck because there is cryptographic proof you blew up the funds
btcmacroecon ok good to wait for established track record
dzimbeck I will use the @ more thanks
dzimbeck @shtand Not always
ulyssessyoungo eBay is good with the reputation system but not so much the arbitration
ulyssessyoungo so that makes me interested in alternatives
dzimbeck matching 1:1 is a great way to deal with strangers you don't trust
dzimbeck But a great seller might only put up 10%
ulyssessyoungo i've been screwed selling some high ticket items on ebay before, not terribly so but enough to make me wonder what the point of a middleman is if they just side with the buyer in most cases
dzimbeck exactly!!
donze safex will be full anonymous and will give dividends to those who own it, what are the advantages of bitbay other than being ahead in the roadmap?
dzimbeck But guys this isn't just buying and selling
dzimbeck who here has outsourced?
btcmacroecon What about where damage or not represented product as advertised? same thing? comes down to reputation scores?
dzimbeck @donze that would be the rolling peg we will get to that
arigard Does Bitbay have any anon functionality?
dzimbeck @btcmacroecon Realize a seller loses funds for damaged items if blown up. He will be much more motivated to work with buyer than he would be in e-bay
dzimbeck BitBays markets are anon
Munti @ donze If safex is able to pay dividends, they will need to take that money from somewhere. Fees? We have no fees (edited)
dzimbeck because they use Bitmessage
dzimbeck and we don't bloat the blockchain
dzimbeck because Bitmessage is p2p
dzimbeck and no chain is used
shtand what's determining who a 'great seller' is and what % they need to match then?
dzimbeck thus no servers
kimchi ...where does bitbay profit come from?
tranzer How is BitBay team being funded?
dzimbeck sender is hidden because messages are passed around making it hard to find the origin
dzimbeck decoding messages is plausible deniability because nobody knows if you have decryption key
dzimbeck (a market is a shared key)
dzimbeck @shtand A great seller would be someone with tons of contracts that didn't blow up
RQDxRocket joined #trading_altcoins.
arigard What about transactions, are they hidden too?
Munti @kimchi BitBay in itself does not need profit. The holders of the coin will get their profit from higher value because we gain adoption. and we are years ahead in this race, so should have a decent chance to increase price a lot
dzimbeck @kimchi I don't profit much from BitBay. We are mostly self funded
moon joined #trading_altcoins.
ulyssessyoungo Yeah it's not a centralized service so i don't see why it would need "profit" given that it's just a network
btcmacroecon does bitbay have any interest in their service being used with other projects to form a marketplace? any room for collaboration if buyers / sellers can be rounded up for establishing marketplace, reputation, including commodity trading?
ulyssessyoungo BAY is POS right?
tranzer Is BitBay POS or mineable or what consensus algo does it use?
dzimbeck @arigard Transactions aren't anon
dzimbeck but I'm a big ffan of zero knowledge proofs
dzimbeck There is ways to hide the person broadcasting using Bitmessage
dzimbeck but I haven't implemented
dzimbeck I'm a purist so if an anon route is chosen later then it will be on a very high level
arigard Will you be looking to do those kinds of things in the future? Maybe something like Zerocoin etc?
dzimbeck @tranzer POS
kimchi When can I see the beta version?
Munti @kimchi Also, Double deposit escrow ties up a lot of money, so when marketplace becomes really active , that will have tremendous impact on coin supply (reduced supply because of DDE). An average daily turnover on our marketplace of 1k dollars can create demand for as much as 30k-50k dollars worth of Bay (edited)
dzimbeck Maybe a side chain arigard
dzimbeck Since the main chain doesn't need to be anon
dzimbeck also anon would interfere with the rolling peg
dzimbeck Jesus zero proof:heart_eyes:
dzimbeck depending on what i choose for it
donze What is actual year trade volume of bitbay?
Munti @btcmacroecon BitBay is open for working with partners
dzimbeck @ulyssessyoungo yeah profit from escrow is not wise since it eliminates the middle man, we would not want the liability
dzimbeck also I meant to say earlier
dzimbeck these contracts work with employees too
dzimbeck so an employee is forced to honor his/her word
dzimbeck and employer is forced to pay
dzimbeck so no more unreliable outsourcers
Munti @donze Trade volume varies a lot like it does for most coins
dzimbeck It's been over a million a lot
btcmacroecon what do you think about creating a trading floor for commodities, or whatever "product" or "service" say "electronics" or "beer" or "metals"
dzimbeck but then it goes down to 50-500k
dzimbeck We don't fake our volume
dzimbeck :smile:
dzimbeck that is why, this is a very organic project
dzimbeck You see I used to be BitHalo
dzimbeck which was years before Ethereum
dzimbeck and was hired on to the BitBay project, the people who hired me disappeared
dzimbeck so the community and myself took it over
dzimbeck making it pretty organic
ulyssessyoungo I have been in your Slack for some time, i can vouch that you guys seem to be one of the more transparent teams.
Munti @btcmacroecon We already kind of have a trading floor for commodities. We have a fully working marketplace. In one of the comming updates we will also add templates for auctions.
dzimbeck BitHalo is still active but it's worth pointing out that all new templates and features will be withheld from BitHalo to give BitBay maximum impact
Bitbay1 uploaded this image: m2.jpg 1 Comment
btcmacroecon i like the concept and not of ebay as a seller given their fees, or as a buyer with paypal.
ulyssessyoungo lol those boots
dzimbeck Ebays biggest problem is scam buyers
dzimbeck no way to stop it
dzimbeck In our platform that is not going to happen
dzimbeck And let me stress something else
dzimbeck This is Bitcoin
dzimbeck which is anonymous
dzimbeck so scams are more prevalent
dzimbeck which is why it shocks me
dzimbeck that this isn't the industry standard for escrow
btcmacroecon but the man is wise
dzimbeck Plus we don't have to deal with arbiters
dzimbeck the analogy is you go to court... would you trust 12 peers and a judge to decide your fate?
dzimbeck I wouldn't
dzimbeck A witness where it's your word against theirs
dzimbeck This is a better system. There is no judge
dzimbeck just perp and victim
btcmacroecon i havent been to court once where the truth was spoken
dzimbeck empowering victims a little bit more
dzimbeck "instant karma"
dzimbeck That is exactly why I made this
btcmacroecon i had proof attorney was lying but judge refused to let me play it as i ha proo
dzimbeck Oh jesus
dzimbeck that sucks
btcmacroecon i was going to hit play in courtroom but she freaked out on the bench said i would not play it in her courtroom!
V01D Would there be any backlash against the name bitbay in the future if a company like eBay felt threatened?
dzimbeck Yeah also realize that losing a deposit makes a victim feel like the person who screwed them paid for it
btcmacroecon protected the liar
dzimbeck I don't think so but we can always rebrand
dzimbeck there is an exchange called BitBay too
dzimbeck timing was almost the same as ours
btcmacroecon 591 price on bay on bittrex
dzimbeck we had an international presence first
dzimbeck As for price
Munti @VO1D I don't see how ebay could do something about that. But then I'm not a lawyer
dzimbeck This IS a trading channel
V01D I see, thank you
dzimbeck we should talk about the rolling peg
btcmacroecon i sold all bay at 860
dzimbeck So when the project started I wasn't the founder
btcmacroecon pissed i could have got 870
dzimbeck so I knew there had to be a way to protect investors in case something bad happened
Munti LOL
dzimbeck So the rolling peg was designed
dzimbeck similar to an economic crawling peg
dzimbeck The way it works is this: we can control the supply of the coin by simply freezing it
dzimbeck so as most coins only inflate
dzimbeck this coin does both
dzimbeck it inflates and deflates
yin :open_mouth:
dzimbeck but it only freezes the coins temporarily to stop dumps on the market
dzimbeck and it does so exactly fairly
codnose It's been a bad 24 hours for lots of alts. It will bounce back @btcmacroecon ;)
dzimbeck coins have memory in this system so each coin knows it's own liquidity
funkedelics proof to back up your claim? Munti Actually particl (then shadowcoin) tried to hire David to make the marketplace for them many years ago. When he declined, they tried to revers enginer his code. They failed :slightly_smiling_face: Posted in #trading_altcoinsToday at 7:09 PM
dzimbeck reddit
btcmacroecon yah i hope to reposition on this coin as we speak
codnose Good few days for bay recently. I'm holding since a while back
dzimbeck there is proof where I fought with veritasBS from ShadowCash
dzimbeck They tried to reverse my code
Bitbay1 Freezing via decentralized voting?
dzimbeck it was famous
funkedelics link?
Munti @funkedelics On reddit as David said. I'm sure we can find a link for you after this session is over
dzimbeck Someone else can find it
dzimbeck @funkedelics
dzimbeck It is on the blackcoin subreddit
btcmacroecon what are you doing to avoid illegal activity, kyc, and silk road activity?
dzimbeck if you wanna look
dzimbeck @btcmacroecon I have a mod key which users subscribe to
dzimbeck which is handed out
dzimbeck so decentralized mod i guess
dzimbeck also users encrypt their IP within their orders
dzimbeck so if for some reason a swat team shows up at my house I just tell them they are free to use it
kimchi What is the return or refund?..
dzimbeck In theory we shouldn't need to deal with silk road type problems
btcmacroecon id say get a fkn warrant, shut the door
dzimbeck since we don't host anything
dzimbeck That too
codnose Rolling peg sounds very interesting. Is there a link here?
dzimbeck But we don't live in a fair world @btcmacroecon
dzimbeck USA arrested a guy in Greece who was a Russian citizen
dzimbeck nonsense
btcmacroecon and those that vote i big corrupt government blame trump
dzimbeck https://bitbay.market/about/pegging/ BitBay Rolling Peg - BitBay Price volatility is cryptocurrency's biggest challenge - BitBay's rolling peg will reduce volatility by dynamically controlling supply. Learn more here.
dzimbeck Never blame Trump
dzimbeck blame military intelligence
dzimbeck and compartmentalization
Munti @codnose our site is going through a little redesign atm, but the info on the rolling peg will be back up soon
btcmacroecon new vorld odor! I blame "globalism"
imyb commented on Bitbay1’s file m2.jpg Is this really what it's going to look like?
dzimbeck :smile:
codnose Great thanks @Munti
Munti LOL, it was back up (edited)
dzimbeck well whatever powerful people do
dzimbeck it's our job to come up with solutions like unbreakable contracts
dzimbeck these contracts work in an anarchy
dzimbeck literally
dzimbeck The rolling peg is meant to allow low cap coins
dzimbeck to thrive
little_round @imyb No, it will be changed
dzimbeck because the control of supply lets us force the price
dzimbeck by voting on supply
yin damn your product sounds awesome! but you need a redesign of your website :smile:
dzimbeck so example
btcmacroecon so you in essence have a dashboard already active.
dzimbeck if a user has 1000 coins at 100% at .10 cents per coin
WeeMan Mike joined #trading_altcoins.
dzimbeck and the network deflates to 50%
dzimbeck he would have 500 coins liquid and 500 frozen
Munti @btcmacroecon What do you mean by dashboard?
dzimbeck he can move the liquid coins as much as he wants
btcmacroecon you have a marketplace or dashboard like ebay has basically?
dzimbeck the frozen coins he can move but with a penalty a one month delay
Munti @btcmacroecon Yes (edited)
dzimbeck which makes a secondary market for trading frozen coins
codnose Like the eBay dashboard right @btcmacroecon ?
dzimbeck at a more speculative value
btcmacroecon you just need to expand on it with volume
Bitbay1 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9hEpu8gZMzEcP22rMYX0Iw/videos YouTube BitBay Official BitBay youtube channel
dzimbeck we can assume his liquid coins would be worth about double than before if demand is about the same
btcmacroecon do you offer any affiliate programs to market for that volume?
dzimbeck Good idea
dzimbeck @btcmacroecon Working on that now
dzimbeck We have just started discussions about incentives
dzimbeck @kimchi please elaborate
dzimbeck return or refund on what?
kimchi I bought shoes. But what if a brick comes? There is an image on top that sells shoes.
dzimbeck Then seller would pay 100 dollars
dzimbeck if you blow it up
dzimbeck so negotiate a refund
dzimbeck the seller will most definitely reconsider
dzimbeck since he doesn't want to pay 100 dollars to be a joker
dzimbeck You can cancel contracts
dzimbeck returning all funds
Anoeng joined #trading_altcoins.
dzimbeck upon mutual consent
dzimbeck everything is consent
btcmacroecon does bitbay have the ability to accept payment in a variety of cryptocurrency? I think that's where volume could come in, or a gateway to exchange tokens and buyer / seller can arrive at payment and yet can be worked via bitbay smart contract or escrowing? could that work, is it possible, if not care to explore it?
dzimbeck the way a contract should be
dzimbeck Yes
codnose Ha that's awesome actually. Why would a seller send anything else knowing they'd lose their deposit ?
dzimbeck You can use Ark to pay
dzimbeck Bay is only used as a deposit
dzimbeck you might have to specify the coins you would accept in your contract
ulyssessyoungo nice
ulyssessyoungo i like that
btcmacroecon and what about dogecoin for example?
codnose Yeah that's cool
ulyssessyoungo Definitely adds to the viability of the platform
codnose Whatcoin? Lol
dzimbeck yeah codnose it forces honesty
dzimbeck and the same for employees
Munti @btcmacroecon Also, our platform is very broad. You can use it for almost anything. We already had all kinds of things sold there from pins to property. Many coins have also been sold there. Our market is like an improved localbitcoin. Binary opptions is also you can find on our marketoplace regularly. And I'm sure we havent even scrathced the surface yet. In the future we will have API's so ppl can tailor their own version of our marketplace.
dzimbeck if I hire someone using this system
btcmacroecon ok deposit only, making more sense now
ulyssessyoungo BAY as a currency would certainly take off best after the Rolling Peg
dzimbeck they better do what they say
ulyssessyoungo but in the meantime that's awesome that you can use other coins
dzimbeck I actually used to it motivate myself
Bitbay1 Why not sell Ark for Bay on the market :slightly_smiling_face:
Bitbay1 or Btc
dzimbeck had my friend blow up my money if I didn't do my daily errands
dzimbeck imagine having 10 grand deterrent
dzimbeck :smile:
bivins Greetings
dzimbeck You can trade coins on the market
dzimbeck especially microtrade
codnose You bought some land using this you said @Munti ?
dzimbeck but it is slow
dzimbeck for that I recommend atomic trade
dzimbeck It's not that fast paced trading that traders demand...
dzimbeck but
codnose No worries about losing any money ? I take it it wasn't just a few dollars
dzimbeck Someone did sell IOTA on our platform
dzimbeck and did lots of deals
Bitbay1 yes before IOTA came into the exchanges
Munti @codnose Yes I did. Got the paperwork in the mail today. 5 acres of land in California. (And I live in Norway) (edited)
prasanth can we stake coins in the market client??
Munti Yes
dzimbeck Staking is done using 2 keys
dzimbeck so you can actually stake over LAN too
tranzer Could BitBay somehow bridge with Ark and offer their services to Ark users?
dzimbeck using 2 computers
dzimbeck it's called "cold staking"
dzimbeck no hacking is possible here
dzimbeck ever
dzimbeck you can hide keys in images
btcmacroecon ok i admit failure on setting up CoinURL as I tried to set up online store, to sell some code, my wildlife photography, and rocks and gems I prospect, I'd like to set up BitBay on an Iframe into my site, and capture affiliate biz. Sounds like this is almost possible, and I could sell my jade right through my site, at least offer it up, right?
dzimbeck and have dual passwords and use 2 computers to sign transactions automated
Munti @tranzer We would have to look into that. But I don't see any reason why we could not.
dzimbeck We need a web wallet
dzimbeck that is our biggest challenge
dzimbeck since I made this with a "security first" attitude
dzimbeck being a cryptographer (edited)
dzimbeck I forgot the reason to make everything web based
Munti @btcmacroecon We are not quite there yet, but yes, that's where we're going
dzimbeck Didn't want to sacrifice security
dzimbeck now I realize there is a need for web based platforms
codnose I follow you on twitter and saw that mentioned the other day. It's coming soon? @dzimbeck
dzimbeck that sacrifice a little security for speed and ease of use in phones
dzimbeck A web wallet?
codnose Yeah
dzimbeck Yeah well we will have a basic web wallet very soon
dzimbeck its actually a very nice one (edited)
dzimbeck But I was referring to a market wallet
dzimbeck one with the full contract implementation
dzimbeck we hope to do that after the peg is successful
Munti Keep an eye on our next weekly update (sunday) for roadmap for the rest of this year. You will get details there
dzimbeck since it's more important to deliver on what I promise
dzimbeck than to make up new features
dzimbeck aka "scope creep" a programmers worst enemy
mergatroid Hello
dzimbeck Hi
mergatroid Please comment on recent news around SEC delistings on bittrex - what steps are you taking to communicate with user base as to whether your a security and what you plan to do if you are classified as such
dzimbeck The rolling peg is the priority
dzimbeck Since Tether is unreliable
dzimbeck this is a decentralized peg
dzimbeck that isn't fixed at a certain price
dzimbeck so it can "roll" the price up
codnose Sounds like you have a lot of nice things planned :)
dzimbeck so it starts at say 5 cents
dzimbeck and slowly rolls up to 10 cents
dzimbeck over X amount of time
dzimbeck after that we would love to focus on web implementations
dzimbeck however anyone who wants to plug this into their site should contact us, we can set up some API calls for sure
Munti @mergatroid I just became aware of the SEC issue on Bittrex today, and have not had time to study it. But going by the little I did read, it doesn't seem to be a problem for us.
mergatroid Ok - so no plan so far understand
dzimbeck we aren't a security
dzimbeck because we don't pay dividends
mergatroid Thankyou
codnose Just on your website now @dzimbeck @Munti
dr10 OK we are approaching 1 hour mark. If you guys have any questions left, go ahead. Anything bitbay.market team would like to add or tell - feel free to do.
V01D Thanks for your time bitbay team
dzimbeck Thanks for doing this! It was fun. And maybe I have a few questions about Ark later
dzimbeck :slightly_smiling_face:
codnose Looking good. Thanks for stopping by :)
dzimbeck Any other questions?
dzimbeck Perhaps regarding the peg, contracts or markets?
Boris Is dzimbeck a god?
dzimbeck :smile:
dzimbeck no
dzimbeck I bleed
codnose Haha I'd heard that too
codnose At least in coding terms lol
dr10 Thank you David and Bjørn for taking the time to do this AMA! All the best with the project and you are always welcome to hang around our Slack
Munti If anyone wants more info, you are welcome to our slack http://bitbay.market/wp-login.php?action=slack-invitation
dzimbeck Honestly a little bit of effort is all these things take
dzimbeck Thanks dr10
Munti Thanks for having us. This was fun
submitted by Dr10tv to ArkEcosystem [link] [comments]

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